Recap of Episode 5.5 "This Place Is Death"
So last night we got to see some events that had previously only been described to us. Back in part 1 of the season 1 finale "Exodus" Rousseau is leading Jack, Locke and other survivors to the Black Rock to get Dynamite to blow up the hatch. She describes the dark territory by saying it is where it all started. It is where her team got sick and where Montand Lost his arm. Of course we saw all of that happening last night. I have gotten a lot of questions regarding Jin's interaction with Rousseau. I contend that Jin always encountered her in 1988 and it was not something that was changed about the past (as we know according to Faraday it can't be changed anyway). Young Rousseau was about to go into the temple but Jin stopped her and it would see that whatever happened to them in the Temple is what caused them to "get sick". I doubt she would have stayed out if Jin did not stop her which of course saved her from whatever happened to her team. Of course that still begs the question, why doesn't she remember him? She seems to remember everything else back then quite clearly. This weekend I am going to have to go back and check out some episodes from season 1 for clues, but for the time being I'll go with she has been alone for 16 years, it's not surprising that she would be a little off on a few things.
After the jump in time when Jin finds the 2 Frenchmen dead on the beach, Robert had me going there for a moment with his whole "I love you" bit. Throughout her time on the show, Rousseau has been portrayed as a crazy woman. They have made it seem the reason for her killing her team was because she went nuts not them. Then last night he is there pleading with her and when it seems she is about to drop her guard he raises his gun and fires. I am a little disappointed in myself because I should have seen if coming, because that too was referenced in the first season. In the episode "Solitary" when Rousseau has Sayid at gun point, the gun he is holding is the same one Robert had. Rousseau removed the firing pin. Still we don't know what exactly happened to them but I would imagine we will learn more down the road as the temple is explored more. It is hard to imagine a scenario that would get Robert to want to kill his lover and their child. There is a big chunk of story missing there. When they first shipwrecked Rousseau was 7 months pregnant. If memory serves she killed her team shortly before Alex was born (and then stolen). So what happened in the 2 months in between? Also keep in mind that we saw everyone on Rousseau's team dead except for the now one-armed Montand. Is he possible still alive?
After the jump in time when Jin finds the 2 Frenchmen dead on the beach, Robert had me going there for a moment with his whole "I love you" bit. Throughout her time on the show, Rousseau has been portrayed as a crazy woman. They have made it seem the reason for her killing her team was because she went nuts not them. Then last night he is there pleading with her and when it seems she is about to drop her guard he raises his gun and fires. I am a little disappointed in myself because I should have seen if coming, because that too was referenced in the first season. In the episode "Solitary" when Rousseau has Sayid at gun point, the gun he is holding is the same one Robert had. Rousseau removed the firing pin. Still we don't know what exactly happened to them but I would imagine we will learn more down the road as the temple is explored more. It is hard to imagine a scenario that would get Robert to want to kill his lover and their child. There is a big chunk of story missing there. When they first shipwrecked Rousseau was 7 months pregnant. If memory serves she killed her team shortly before Alex was born (and then stolen). So what happened in the 2 months in between? Also keep in mind that we saw everyone on Rousseau's team dead except for the now one-armed Montand. Is he possible still alive?
It was nice to finally get a glimpse of the temple last night. All we can really take from it is that is appears to be a home of sorts to the smoke monster and this it was covered in the same kind of hieroglyphics we saw on the door that Ben went through when he summoned the smoke monster last season. By the looks of it's age, I would say that the temple is also somehow related to the 4-toed statue and the well that Locke went down at the end of the episode.
Sawyer has always been my favorite character on this show and I loved his reaction when they found Jin, who's English continues to improve quite conveniently. It's also convenient that Charlotte speaks Korean to help explain complex issues like time travel. Of course she won't be doing much translating now that she is dead. But then again this is Lost, there are probably 100 scenarios where she comes back to life. Although it is not shocking to see her bumped off in an episode where so much info was revealed about her. Of course there is the revelation to Daniel that she used to live on the island with DHARMA and that her mother . Then there was the bit about Faraday being the crazy man in her past telling her not to come back to the island. So why wouldn't Faraday remember that? There are 2 reasons I can think of, one would be because parts of his memory were erased by his time traveling shenanigans. The second would be he doesn't remember it because he hasn't done it yet and he has more time traveling shenanigans yet to come. The second seems more likely, but it was Faraday himself who said that the past cannot be changed, so why would he try? Maybe his love for Charlotte is robbing him of his reason.
Even before Charlotte told Daniel about her past, she said some interesting things as a result of her temporal displacement. One of the things she said was "I know more about ancient Carthage than Hannibal himself". This is most likely referencing the work we have previously seen her doing in Tunisia, because that is where ancient Carthage was located. We've seen the skeleton of a polar bear with a DHARMA collar there and we saw Ben end up there after turning the frozen donkey wheel. We also know that if you start in Tunisia and take a straight line through the center of the earth you end up in the South Pacific. It is still hard to say what that means but it could be connected some how with the temporal jumps.
Her other comments are far more interesting to me though. First she says "Why can't daddy come with us?" Obviously referencing when her mother took her off the island. The question is who are mommy and daddy? Later she said "You know what my mom would say about me marrying an American?" Who is she talking about marrying? Faraday is an American, but I highly doubt considering he just expressed his feeling for her they ever talked about marriage in the past. As I said before, maybe she isn't rally dead and that is a future conversation. This could be completely unrelated, but thinking about Faraday as an American got me to realize that his mother, Eloise Hawking is British. I don't really know that means but doesn't it seem peculiar? Those of you who heard me on Bob & Brian this morning heard what I am calling one of my "way out there" theories. What if Charlotte and Daniel are actually half brother and sister? I am not saying that Ms. Hawking is also Charlotte's mom. Maybe she is, maybe they have the same dad. The creators of the show love to reference Star Wars so maybe romantic hinting between them is an homage to Luke having a crush on Leia in Star Wars before learning they were brother and sister. I know that is a stretch, but not out of the realm of possibility. There has already been a ton of speculation that Widmore might be Faraday's father. There is also speculation that Widmore might have started DHARMA. Charlotte said her mother was DHARMA (Faraday's was an Other) so who knows how it could all come into play. The one thing to take from that sequence is that whoever they are, Charlotte's parentage will probably end up being important at some point.
I mentioned Ben ending up in Tunisia after turning the Frozen Donkey Wheel. Of course we learned last night that Ben wasn't the one who was supposed to turn the wheel, Locke was. I don't think this was a simple mistake. EVERYTHING Ben does has a reason behind it. He always has a plan. Why did he want to leave and for John to saty? I am sure it has to do with his overall agenda and there is NO way to know what that is yet. He could have done it so he could get revenge on Widmore by killing Penny, but Ben is more of a "big picture" guy and while killing her is on his to do list I am not sure it is at the top.
There are several intriguing things that happened with Locke down at the bottom of that well. The first is yet another leg injury. So the cripple can walk, but since that has happened he lost use of them while trekking though the jungle with Boone. He badly hurt them when they were pinned by the blast door in the Swan station. He was shot in the leg by Ethan just recently and now he badly broke it with bone sticking through the skin at the bottom of the well. Then there is his conversation with Christian Shepard. Many of you have asked so let me be clear, Christian is not Jacob. Last season in the episode "Cabin Fever" Locke asked if he was Jacob. He said, "No, but I can speak on his behalf." Jacob is using Christian as a messenger. Christian is dead, which is most likely why he was unable to help Locke up.
The most curious part about the well was the frozen donkey wheel itself. It has slipped off it's axis. Is that what was causing the jumps in time? All along we've heard that they Oceanic 6 need to go back to save their friends. All along we have assumed that somehow bringing them back was the key to stopping the jumps. This is speculation on my part, but what if simply putting it back on it's axis stopped the jumps and the 6 have to come back to save them from something even worse. That is just another "out there" theory and it is just as likely that the return of those in civilization is what it will take to stop the jumps. It just seemed like the erratic way the wheel was moving matched with the erratic jumps of the island.
We do know that next week we will find out how the folks off the island will be coming back. I think my previous post about Ajira Airways could be right on... it is very possible they are going to be in another plane crash. The question is who will be on the plane. I don't think we will see everyone who needs to go back going back at the same time. I can't see Sun going and just leaving her baby in Korea. In more words Sayid told Jack and Ben he would kill them if he ever sees them again. Then of course there is Kate and Aaron. Does Frank Lapidus have to go back? Heck, maybe he is even flying the plane?
If you are frustrated by all of the questions I seem to be asking without giving any answers... so am I. I loved the episode last night but it simply left us with few concrete answers. The good news is that we should get a boatload of answer the next 2 weeks. If you are a nerd like me you pay attention to things which writers write each episode. Damon and Carlton usually write every 4th or 5th episode themselves and then just oversee the development of other scripts. The ones they write are usually the best ones. They wrote both Episode 5.6 "316" and Episode 5.7 "The Life & Death of Jeremy Bentham". 5.7 was also directed by Jack Bender who is also one of the primary creative forces behind the show.
If you are frustrated by all of the questions I seem to be asking without giving any answers... so am I. I loved the episode last night but it simply left us with few concrete answers. The good news is that we should get a boatload of answer the next 2 weeks. If you are a nerd like me you pay attention to things which writers write each episode. Damon and Carlton usually write every 4th or 5th episode themselves and then just oversee the development of other scripts. The ones they write are usually the best ones. They wrote both Episode 5.6 "316" and Episode 5.7 "The Life & Death of Jeremy Bentham". 5.7 was also directed by Jack Bender who is also one of the primary creative forces behind the show.
Before I go, one more quick point about last night, and perhaps the most curious thing about the end of last night's episode was when Desmond arrived. When he mentioned that he was there to see Faraday's mother, Ben looked shocked. We don't often see that look from him. It seemed to me that Ben was previously unaware of their connection. Maybe it shouldn't be surprising though. There are very few people in the world who give Ben Linus orders and Eloise Hawking appears to be one of them.
I actually have 2 more pages of notes from last night's episode but I try not to make these recaps too long and there were simply just way more questions than answers last night. So if I didn't get to something you want to know more about leave it in the comments sections and I will try to answer it.
If you have not yet read my post below about Ajira Airways... read it before next weeks episode. You'll be glad you did.
Stay Lost...
The hieroglyphics on the temple also showed up when the the countdown timer in the Swan ran down to zero. That's just one more hint that the Dharma Initiative was clearly co-opting what the Others had been doing on the Island, possibly for many centuries. Makes me think that the DI was really just ripping off another culture's work, rather than doing their own work on the Island.
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True... we know that Ben called what DHARMA did silly science projects, yet if looks to me as if they is some connection on an organic level to what the island is all about. This certainly would lend credibility to the theory that Widmore, once an Other, is behind DHARMA.
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It almost seems as if what the DI was doing was trying to quantify what the Others basically took as a matter of faith -- and once again we see the Science vs. Faith storyline crop up. And I think you're right, down the road we are going to see some sort of deeper connection between the Others and the DI.
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How come everyone got the nose bleeds except Daniel?? ... we know for a fact that he was on the island before.. and now even Sawyer is getting one
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We don't technically know if Daniel has been on the island yet. The episode where we saw him as a DHARMA worker could have been a flash forward of him on the island in the past. (perhaps the same time he warned Charlotte not to come back?)
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My guess would be because of his past experiences with time travel he might be in some ways immune to the effects. We didn't see Jin get a nose bleed, did we? He and Sawyer have been there the same amount of time... peculiar.
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My personal theory (don't shoot me here) is that Daniel, like Desmond, is "super special" and is immune to the Island Disease.
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Locke never got a nosebleed, either. I'm beginning to wonder if Desmond isn't the only person to whom "the rules don't apply," to quote Daniel Faraday.
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I apologize if someone already brought this up, but has anybody noticed that when Jack and everyone first arrived on the island, it was with Christian's body. Doesn't it seem interesting/coincidental that now they are returning again, but this time with Locke's body? Will Locke return and become more like Christian - more ethereal?
That's as far as I've gotten on that thought....
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I think it is a very good possibility that is how this will play out. The creators have said, Christian is dead and did not come back to life on the island, which is likely why he couldn't help John up. Upon returning to the island I could easily see Locke being the same way. I like the way you think... so I'll take you the next step. If that is the case, who then becomes the next leader of the Others?
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When we keep hearing that "everyone" must go back to the island, are we sure that includes Frank and Desmond. Maybe it only means everyone from the Oceanic 815 flight. The reason I am asking, is that Ben made no effort to find Frank or Desmond. So it is either fortunate that Desmond showed up at the church in this past episode, or it really didn't matter to Ben if Desmond was there or not. And who knows where Frank is.
And then when Ben told Faraday's mother that he couldn't get the whole group on such short notice, Faraday's mother said, "this will have to do." So do they really need everyone or not?
You would have to imagine that Ben will start inquiring about Penny now that he has been reunited with Desmond. But killing Penny probably isn't his priority right now.
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Good comment.
The creators have more or less said that not everyone will go back initially. We will find out what the consequenses are... bith for the island AND for the people who chose not to return. Hard to know what that means.
It is also impossible to know right now who all has to go back. My gut tells me that Frank will be involved again soon. Maybe we'll see him as a pilot for Ajira Airways?
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Wanted your thoughts on the last time jump where Locke was injured. Since the rope is cut off by solid rock and there is no well. When did they jump too? Either a time before the well was dug or a in the future when the well is closed. I'm guessing before the well was dug so very far in the past, close to the time of the temple building? So the group topside is stuck in past?
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It could easily be either... I have no reason to think this, but I am going to say that it isn't before the well was built. I'll say at some point the well was filled in the cut off access to the wheel. Just a shot in the dark.
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I'm thinking it's before. Since it didn't look like it was "filled in". If it was, then Locke would have been inside all the dirt that filled the well. And where did all the temple go?
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we know that it has been 3 years for the oceanic 6 but for the people time hopping it's been what 3 days? I would imagine that whent he O6 get back it will be present time for them (07) but what does that mean for those on the island? While time traveling did they just lose 3 years of their lives or do you think the O6 will come back to 2004 and be three years older than they should be since you can't unage a person. Any thoughts on this?
Also I had my questions too with the donkey wheel jerking around and that by John pushing it shouldn't that make it stop the time travel I guess we'll have to wait and see on that one.
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Your post, while very well thought out and very well written, made my head hurt.
It's hard to know how that is going to be resolved... this is just a guess but I am going to say that is going to have something to do with the "Window" that the Oceanic 6 has to go back. I would guess that Eloise Hawking is trying to figure out where in time the island is jumping and the window Ben and Jack are trying to hit is when the island happens to be in 2007, at the same time they are. So I guess technically that means anyone who left the island would have aged 3 years while the people who were on the island have aged 3 days or how many ever days it's been... remember we haven't really seen them eat or sleep or anything. It is hard to know how long they have been time traveling.
While my explanation is completely a guess... I think it is an easier story telling device than trying to "unage" someone (which you pointed out is kind of impossible). Next week we find out how they go back so hopefully we'll get an answer soon.
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If Charlotte's DHARMA-ian parents do happen to be important in overall spectrum of Lost, there is not a large pool of DHARMA Initiative members to choose from. As it's widely speculated that Miles is Dr. Chang's son, I (and I assume others) wonder if there's any connection between Charlotte and the Goodspeeds, Horace and Olivia.
Granted, as she's british, and her mother seems to have a thing against Americans, it is an easy counterpoint to point out Olivia's lack of a british accent in The Man Behind the Curtain.
My reason for saying this is, Charlotte claimed her mother left the island, while her father stayed behind. At the end of Man Behind the Curtain, specific attention is given to Horace, who in a not-unfamiliar fashion died with blood pouring from his nose. But there was no sign of Olivia. Wonder why.
If there's any real solid ground under that theory, it makes me wonder more what ol' Horace was up to, making the Cabin. The only people who we have seen enter the cabin (Christian, Claire, Ben and John) have all appeared on the mainland in a dubious fashion (albeit Claire was more in a dream ... but isn't she always?). What the heck *is* that Cabin for?
Crackpot theory? Order up!
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You mention Sun not wanting to leave behind her baby but wouldn't the baby also have to go back to the island? Or would the baby die as soon as she got there?
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I don't think the baby would die upon arriving... I just don't know if she needs to go back. Whether or not she is essential to the island's plans, I can't see Sun leaving her behind especially since she is going back for Jin who has never seen his daughter.
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When Kate and Sawyer were captured in by the Others in Season 3 and put in the bear cages, an older woman came and talked to Kate. She was referred to as the "Sheriff" and that was all we saw or heard of her. Was that Eloise Hawking or just some of the filler stuff they through in for Season 3? I'm going out on a limb and saying that Charlotte's father is Christian Shephard. He's connected with a lot of other people, he seems to have some connection with the island, we know that he's already fathered another child and Claire's mother wasn't of him after their relationship was over.
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"The Sheriff" was a woman named Isabel... she is not the same person as Eloise Hawking, but I have gotten a lot of emails asking the same question. They are certainly similar in their demeanor, but are clearly not the same person.
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Seth:
My daughter and I were discussing the scenario of Rousseau not recognizing Jin.
She thinks it has to be “because it hasn't happened yet” and also because Rousseau is now dead.
She reminded me of the scenes where Faraday went to the hatch to tell Desmond to find his mother Eliose. – Desmond woke up remembering his new “memory” and starts his quest to find her.
Well, Rousseau is now dead and she can't have this new memory, but if she were alive she would just remember it it “now” like Desmond.
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I agree. It seems Farady might be wrong. Because, he did change the past. Only, it came through as a memory. But it was a New one.
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I don't know where this applies or even if it's relevant but I noticed something in This Place is Death. There is an overhead shot at slip 23 where Sun is pointing her gun at Ben, I believe its the scene after the first commercial break. In this shot you can see boats docked at the pier and in the lower right hand corner of the screen you can see a a boat (yacht?)with the name Illusion written on it. Anyone else catch this? Maybe Desmond's yacht? We know he was heading to LA and he meets up with Ben & co. at Hawking's. Any thoughts?
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Desmond's boat was the Elisabeth, which he got from Libby whose dead husband named it after her. There are several theories that Libby was once in the DI and if Widmore really did start the DI that is rather mindblowing. Hard to know for sure right now.
That isn't to say that the boat at the pier doesn't mean something thought.
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Libby could have been on the island before - there was a scene where she was shown alone at a table in the institution where Hurley was. She could have left the Island and suffered effects of time travel and ended up there.
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Could Daniel Faraday BE Jacob? In the future? As the crazy old man?
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Am I the only one that relates Charlotte speaking Korean to Dr. Chang, and the theory that Charlotte was the baby in the at the clip in the beginning of this season.
Obviously Dr. Chang can't be the father since Charlotte has no look of being any part Korean, but what if Chang was her "guardian" while she was on the island. Maybe they thought she was "special" because she was born on the island and I'm guessing that the same issue of pregnant mothers dying was still potent on the island during this time. Maybe I'm crazy but it's just a theory.
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Have we found out where the atomic bomb is burried? My thought is that it is in the middle of the four toed foot. They said that it needed to be encased in concrete so it seems like a good place to hide it. Let me know your thoughts.
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I think the 4-toed statue pre-dates the bomb, but who knows? Another popular theory floated here is that the bomb is behind all of the concrete that was below the Swan station. When Sayid was looking at it he said the last time he saw concrete poured over everything in that manner was at Chernobyl
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I'm pretty sure that they aren't going to crash as a way to get back to the island. I believe that in episode three Sawyer and Kate were made to work on an landing strip on the "other island". I think Ben made mention to it not being completed but maybe it is in good enough shape to land. Which brings me to another question. Do you think that "other island is jumping too?"
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Sorry I meant Season three not episode three.
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I have thought about that and I have no doubt that it is in some way connected... but it just doesn't seem dramatic enough. It might not be a plane crash that brings them down but you have to imagine it will be filled with drama.
I do think that the other island is moving because then they were up in the helicopter and the island vanished they told Lapidus there was another island and he said it was no where to be seen.
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Seth-
When the French team are listening to the numbers being read over the radio transmission, does the voice sound anything like Hurley to you? 23 and 42 seem to but the first few numbers are pretty quiet, I can't tell.
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